The Boomerang Lemon

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 02/09/2015 at 13:00 • Filed to: None

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There has been much speculation lately about what happens to Lemon Law buybacks – the cars and trucks that are so defective, no one can fix them. The lemons get resold, sometimes without future owners knowing. I know because one lemon returned to my office to let me represent it again.

I had a client who bought a car brand new from a fairly high volume dealer not far from my office in suburban Detroit. She noticed almost immediately it had a wonky transmission. Harsh shifting, slipping and so on. She brought it in for service. The technicians said they found a problem and fixed it. They gave it back to her. It was still messed up. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! In the four repair visits, the technicians said they witnessed the defect every time and they appeared to have tried to fix it each time. The repair orders listed all sorts of parts being replaced and so on. It's just that none of the repair attempts solved the problem. We sent a last chance letter to the manufacturer and they declined to take a last chance at repairing it.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

We filed suit and the manufacturer quickly agreed to buy the car back from my client and pay the fees and costs associated with her lawsuit. I was with her the day she turned the vehicle in at the dealership and signed all of the papers necessary to rid herself of the car. That was the last she saw of the car. But it wasn't the last time for me.

The manufacturer took possession of the car shortly thereafter, did what they could to try and fix it, and sent it to an auction where it was sold to a dealer. The manufacturer sent paperwork to the auction to let the purchasing dealer know the vehicle was a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in the hope that they would to pass that information along to the next civilian purchaser.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

A few months later I got a phone call from a woman who told me she had a used car with a bad transmission. I didn't catch it right away but it was the same year, make and model as the car in the story above. When I told her that the Michigan lemon law doesn't generally cover used cars she told me there ought to be a law covering this one.

I asked her why she thought that.

She told me that she had brought the vehicle in for warranty repairs several times and when the transmission could not be fixed, she had done a title search on the previous owner and found out that this car was the one I had gotten bought back for my client above. That client had given her my number. This was in the days before Carfax (although, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! her much anyway). She had not been told of the car's history.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

We filed suit against the dealer for misrepresentation – that is, failing to disclose the true history of the vehicle to my second client when she bought the car. And how did we know that this dealer definitely knew the car was a lemon law buyback? It was the same dealer both times. And when we filed suit, they did not deny it had happened this way. They just said it was an "oversight."

The vehicle got bought back again. I think the dealer picked up the brunt of the cost of this suit but I'm not privy to how defendants divide up their portions of a defense (and yes, we sued the manufacturer also because the transmission was never fixed, giving rise to a breach of warranty claim as well.) And if you are wondering about the math, this vehicle's transmission had been subjected to nine (9) repair attempts that we know of by this point. Four times for the first client, once by the manufacturer before the auction, and four more times for the second client. When she turned it in, the trans was still messed up.

I wish I still had the VIN of that car. It was early in my career and I would love to know how many more times after that it changed hands. I also admit I half expected to have it return to my office, asking me to get it repurchased by the manufacturer again.

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we're not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn't act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Photo by Marina Shemesh

505Turbeaux > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:03

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the lemon that keeps on giving...

SteveLehto > 505Turbeaux 02/09/2015 at 13:04

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KEEP making lemonade!

CB > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:09

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Have you considered changing the motto of your practice to "When life gives you lemons, sue them"?

Okay, maybe the second part needs to be a bit more catchy. Also, could the VIN be located somewhere in the paperwork if you still have it kicking around?

SteveLehto > CB 02/09/2015 at 13:12

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Paperwork has long since been shredded.

I also like the phrase "Litigation ensues," but we do need to keep working on that.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:17

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I realize it's not SOP for dealerships, but you'd think after X attempts to fix a misbehaving trans they'd just swap in a new one out of a crate rather than go the buyback route.

#inwillsperfectworld

SteveLehto > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 02/09/2015 at 13:18

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I agree. But somewhere, there are accountants who have crunched the numbers on this and think that IN THE BIG PICTURE, it saves them money.

ScoobsMcGee > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:19

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Ahhh, Chrysler stories.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:19

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Good feeling's gone now.

Le sigh.

SteveLehto > ScoobsMcGee 02/09/2015 at 13:20

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I didn't mention the brand. This would not have surprised me from any of the Big Three (and it was one of the Big Three).

thebigbossyboss > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:21

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Wouldn't after the 9th time trying to repair it, they just put a new transmission in? I mean for the love of god.

heeltoehero > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:22

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All of this instead of just putting a new trans in the damn car. I guess I really don't understand business.

SteveLehto > thebigbossyboss 02/09/2015 at 13:22

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Perhaps they are godless?

This occurs to you or me (and everyone else out there) but no, they didn't. And I have had more than a few of these cases where you really wonder.

HammerheadFistpunch > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:24

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so there is no title record of being a lemon then... why not?

SteveLehto > heeltoehero 02/09/2015 at 13:24

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I suspect if you look at the entire fleet of cars out there and the number brought in with "transmission problems" - overall you keep your costs down by minimizing your efforts. I would think they would pull out all the stops and do that for the last chance repair but they didn't (and rarely do).

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:24

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You should use something like this "commercial" Around the 1:20 mark is the relevant material, though everything in this is fairly amazing.

SteveLehto > HammerheadFistpunch 02/09/2015 at 13:24

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Most states do not brand titles and Michigan is one of the majority of states that don't.

TheInfamousMisterLicious > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:25

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My guess is Honda. They are the only ones that don't take the lemon law cars back for manufacturer testing - they just assume "it must be the fat, lazy American's fault"

VintageRider > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:26

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And no one just changed out the whole transmission?

SteveLehto > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 02/09/2015 at 13:26

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Now, that is funny.

HammerheadFistpunch > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:26

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That's what I wanted to know, thanks

SteveLehto > VintageRider 02/09/2015 at 13:27

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If so, it happened after the first two owners.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:27

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That is the second one. The first one is equally as hilarious. Well worth a couple minutes of your life.

drdude > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:27

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See, as an actual troubleshooter, THIS I really can not understand.

Trans has issues 3x... replace ENTIRE transmission. New trans has same issue? replace inputs to the transmission, namely the PCM that is controlling it. other than the PCM and the shift cable, there is nothing else going to it anyway.

This is one of those things that can easily be fixed, but not by the "well the scan tool said it was ok" mechanic.

jimz > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:28

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if you remember, did any of the repair attempts involve just replacing the transmission?

SteveLehto > jimz 02/09/2015 at 13:29

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No. Parts and adjustments and so on. Never the whole thing.

Kinja'd Again > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:30

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Stealerships are the worst......

SteveLehto > Kinja'd Again 02/09/2015 at 13:31

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I think this problem is with the warranty process. I suspect the mechanics would have recommended replacing the whole trans but were not given approval to do so. At least, that is what I am guessing.

VintageRider > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:31

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Sometimes being more involved in the service can help avoid all this BS. An educated consumer might push the dealer to replace the whole unit after the 2nd or 3rd repair rather then just keep doing the same useless job.

The Gray Adder > thebigbossyboss 02/09/2015 at 13:33

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I had a Mercury Topaz that had an engine commit seppuku on me, just before the warranty expired. I thought the same thing - why don't they just get a new engine and put it in? Instead, they did a complete tear-down and rebuild. Three weeks later, I had my car back. It ran fine, better than new, the mechanics got the valuable experience of having taken my car apart down the last screw and put it back together, it probably had a couple extra HP in it due to the cylinders being bored out a bit, but at least they didn't have to open a crate and give a car with 59,200 miles on it a brand new engine, right?

E39Geek > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:34

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Just translate "Litigation Ensues" into Latin. Et voila!

SteveLehto > VintageRider 02/09/2015 at 13:34

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You'd think the lawsuits and whatnot might get someone's attention too, but things don't always work out they way you think they should.

EvilSuperMonkey > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:34

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I feel there is a "legal aid, lemonade" angle that needs to be explored.

SteveLehto > E39Geek 02/09/2015 at 13:34

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Or Caveat Venditor! (Seller Beware).

thebigbossyboss > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:34

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...You do...given you had to litigate twice for the same vehicle. What do they say, penny wise pound foolish.

wildbill > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:35

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Recently saw a 2008 Sprint Blue RS4 with 45,000 miles on it for $35,000 at a super small used car dealership near me with all the other cars on the lot Nissans and Hyundais and Kias being around $15k. Turns out it was a Lemon Buyback (ran the VIN myself) Dealership said nothing of the sort. Seems like it's been sold but I would have at least loved to get a test drive in.

Aside from the now blown out of proportion Timing Chain issue. What an awesome car.

thebigbossyboss > The Gray Adder 02/09/2015 at 13:36

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I suppose so. I too owned a Topaz!! Well I had a Tempo. It did well until I hit a truck that left turned directly in front of me at 55 mph. Since it was an F150 it was Ford on Ford violence.

Mr. Ligier 812 GTC4Lusso Rubicon Pista > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:36

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Same thing happened to a previous car of mine, though we didn't go through the whole lemon law process - I was able to get in touch with a senior individual with the car company and they agreed to buy it back without going through the Lemon Law process. Two months later I saw the car for sale in another state.

The Gray Adder > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:41

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Seems kind of stupid to me. Avoidance of the hit to your reputation alone (lost future sales, etc.) is probably worth a new tranny. But I guess if you're someone like Billy Fuccillo, your rep is already in the toilet, so who gives a shit, right?

Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? > drdude 02/09/2015 at 13:48

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Had that with my Acura. It did exactly what Acura said it would do, but "It didn't throw a code", so they wouldn't do anything with it. Had to drive it for 6 more months before it was "bad enough" to get it fixed.

Yes, I like Jukes > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:48

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Luckily when my transmission decided to kill itself, Nissan immediately said "REPLACE ALL OF THE TRANSMISSION!". Yeah, it took about 5 weeks for them to get all of the parts and install them, but it seems to be good now!

Vlan1 > wildbill 02/09/2015 at 13:51

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that timing chain issue can never be understated.

SteveLehto > Yes, I like Jukes 02/09/2015 at 13:53

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Plan A for them - Plan B for the story above.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:54

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Just a few days late... running this story on Groundhog Day would have pushed it that last little bit over into perfection.

As a consumer, I'd be tempted to paint the car yellow, get vanity plates that read LEMON, and park it on alternate days in front of the dealership and the manufacturer's headquarters. (Or engage a lemon-law specialist.) As a gearhead and technology professional and detective-novel buff, though, I must admit I'm intrigued by what flaw they've been overlooking through nine presumably significant transmission repairs. Makes a fellow want to tear it all down (including adjacent engine parts) and do nondestructive testing on everything — both cold and warm.

(I'm assuming, of course, that they did something significant in all of those instances instead of changing the fluid and filter and slapping it back together... and that other cars of that unspecified model were any better! Come to think of it, whether the rest of the car was any good may be another unwarranted implication...)

I'm afraid I don't have any better theories than yours on why, at some point, they didn't just put in a different transmission. (And then looking at, say, the sensors and wiring of its presumably electronic controls, and the physical interface with engine and chassis, if that didn't do the job.) I can see having to go into a complicated system a few times before getting without getting to the bottom of it, but whaling away in vain for (at least!) nine repair attempts and two customers and two lawsuits ought to convince even the most pennywise and pound-foolish manager to make an exception to the usual service policy...

VintageRider > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:57

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I had Jaguar buy back a 2002 X-Type and give me a new 2004.

Birddog > CB 02/09/2015 at 13:57

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"When life gives you lemons, sue them"?

I don't think you'd get far by suing a Lemon.

SteveLehto > VintageRider 02/09/2015 at 13:59

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I've handled a few Jag cases over the years. What was wrong with your '02?

TheStigsGermanCousin > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 13:59

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Amazing.

dmat > The Gray Adder 02/09/2015 at 14:00

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maybe it had a rarer more costly motor so it was cheaper to rebuild? or the mechanic got a set amount for the rebuild no matter the actual cost.

rude80y > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:01

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All right, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons? Don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! 'I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?' Demand to see life's service manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Steve Lehto lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's going to burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm going to get my underlings to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

davedave1111 > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:03

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Steve 'Lemon Law' Lehto: he'll get you juice-tice.

TheStigsGermanCousin > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:04

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Thought I'd leave this here.

drdude > Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? 02/09/2015 at 14:04

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I just had to deal with it again myself a couple months ago. Brand new 2015 BRZ series blue. Wifes car. love it....
We took a roadtrip, and when we arrived home
I noticed it idled rough. awe fuck. 70mph on the interstate was over 3 grand in 4th, Im thinking prolonged hwy driving caused a valve issue.. or something.. typical "panic because its my new car" not logical thinking. its much easier to not be emotionally involved and logical when its not your own car.

So with 3,200 on the car, its time for an oil change anyway (in my opnion).. so I take it to the dealer for a "free" one.. and mention the idle. Its kind of obvious.

I had to fight for the oil change, since it wasnt 5k.
As far as the idle goes... it checked fine on the scan tool... I wanted to say "duuh, no shit. Theres no light. no codes on my scan tool either." but I didnt.
I went home, drained the remaining 3/4 of a tank of gas out... (more than enough lawnmower gas for a year...) and then filled the tank from my usual local place.... the idle smoothed back out.. it was just crappy gas from the way back.

still its obvious if you look at the car.. its a direct injected boxer motor. When running correctly I could set a glass of water on it and the water will barely ripple. This was visible shaking, and the tech called it normal. I suppose if you never looked under the hood with it running, you would... but damn.

I hate shitty techs. I dont mind kids that are learning, but seriously, without oversight... without a mentor... they are still shitty techs.

The Gray Adder > dmat 02/09/2015 at 14:04

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Nope, it was the regular old 2.3l Pinto four-banger. You'd think they would have a couple of those sitting on a shelf somewhere next to the oil filters.

And you're probably right. The mechanics got to bill beaucoup hours to Ford on this job. The invoice was probably longer than my master's thesis is likely to be.

SteveLehto > rude80y 02/09/2015 at 14:09

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Ok. Let's see if we can squeeze that on a business card.

SOCdriver > rude80y 02/09/2015 at 14:11

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Oranges have a flammable liquid in them, take an orange peel, a candle, and a little finger pressure for some fun. Just don't burn your own house down with oranges.

John Static > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:11

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Whenever I see a Steve Lehto article on the Jalops, I read it.

Always an interesting read.

I didn't know you had a podcast. I'm checking that out.

Good stuff man!

SteveLehto > John Static 02/09/2015 at 14:13

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Thanks. Now you can hear me ramble too!

kasheed > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:13

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Fantastic article as always.

Question: You've done plenty on MANUFACTURER buybacks, but what about DEALER buybacks? I have worked in the car business going on 5 years now and I had never heard of such a thing, but a reddit post recently alerted me to such a thing .

It would appear that the dealership in this case seriously misled the customer as to why the car was returned, what it's status was (new vs used) and neglected to collect the proper paperwork until the customer had been in the car for quite a while. I have zero sympathy whatsoever for those scumbags.

dmat > heeltoehero 02/09/2015 at 14:14

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I think a good example of how some of these businesses work is Tire Kingdom's alignment program. A good example is that they offer a 5 year unlimited mile warranty for an alignment if you pay for it at like $200 or so. then there is the cheaper 6 month version of $70. Huge price difference between the 2 over 5 years. How do they make that happen. For every warrantied alignment done, the technician gets $5, thats it. They get a set fee on pretty much every job they do regardless of time taken. Id think this system is pretty widely used.

Deathocracy > CB 02/09/2015 at 14:15

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When life gives you lemons make Lehtoaide? Eh, close enough for a 15 sec local radio spot

SteveLehto > kasheed 02/09/2015 at 14:15

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Thanks for the note. Yes, what you are talking about there would be what we call Revocation of Acceptance. That can be invoked against any SELLER if the circumstances merit. It is actually MORE common in the grand scheme of things than manufacturer buybacks are (usually, the person buying back is the one that sold it.)

rude80y > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:18

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No-one has ever used the blank-space on the back of one for anything ever, right? Boom, printing space (albiet in a smaller than usual font).

VashVashVash > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:22

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After reading a few of these lemon stories, it sound like they have less to do with the state of the car and more with the skill of the technicians attempting to fix it.

Anything (recently manufactured) can be fixed. There can be a case of the repair costing more than the value of the vehicle, but for that the value of the vehicle needs to be low, or the cost of the repair very significant (Flooded cars are expensive to fix because there is so much fixing).

However, you can run up the cost on anything by doing it badly. If a problem is misdiagnosed, or repairs done incorrectly, costs can balloon quickly thru repeated attempts. It doesn't sound like good trouble shooting skills are prized among the technicians working at dealerships. There is a great deal of throwing parts at it and hoping the problem goes away. Which makes me think that sometimes the people throwing the parts are not paying attention, and may gall or nick services, fail to clean things that need cleaning, or install a damaged gasket, or install one incorrectly.

What surprises me is that manufacturers rely on dealers to do these repairs, even in the case of a buyback. You'd think those vehicles would be taken to some central location where people who know what they are doing can fix it right.

SteveLehto > VashVashVash 02/09/2015 at 14:27

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I have heard that the techs know how to fix a lot of these problems but that the work will not be authorized by the manufacturer.

Kylemaro > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:30

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thats pretty much life as a tech

RichardNixon72 > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:39

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In Florida, ANY and ALL title brands MUST BE DISCLOSED IN WRITING to the final retail customer. This includes 'duty' brands like Taxi and Police.

I've bought and sold a handful of Lemon Law'd cars and always disclosed them as such, even in the advertising listing for them. The two most recent ones were a 2012 QX56 was repurchased by Nissan-Infiniti LT for a "Accumulation of Water from Sunroof" that was fixed then resold at Manheim Orlando. Another was a 2011 Wrangler Sport that was apparently bought back for "Chronic Poor Radio Reception." I know from Nissan-Infiniti, you have to fill out a 10-page form from their administration company that requires the customer signature as well before they release the title to you, so they're hard to get by people when its a recent Lemon Law car.

I also sold a 2005 Durango we took in trade that had a Lemon Law brand. I don't recall what that was for but it had 220k miles on it, so I assume whatever it was returned for had long been fixed and - quite frankly - does it really matter at that point?

VintageRider > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:39

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Transfer case failures.

First one was at 3k miles. Took two years and 20k miles before they gave me the 04.

Funny, jaguar had dropped the price by then. So the 2004 had the same options, but was like $4500 cheaper...

SteveLehto > RichardNixon72 02/09/2015 at 14:46

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Yes, this varies from state to state AND from manufacturer to manufacturer.

In this instance, the MFR had a policy in place for the information to get to the next owner but it never made it that far. I do not know whose fault that was because of the number of people involved in the process between owners.

Buckus > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:50

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Sometimes doing the hard thing that costs more for the company but ends well for the consumer is worth more in the long run. If they had just swapped in a new trans and sent the owner on her way, she probably would have recommended the car to other people who might have asked.

Cpages2 > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:51

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I had this exact thing happen to me. Back in 2005 I bought a 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX from a local dealer. It had about 12K miles on it (if I recall correctly) and every option/color I wanted.

Price was amazing also!!! Sadly I was just 19 years old and did not know this was a "deal too good to be real". So before leaving I noticed a few things so salesman did a "WE OWE" for me and told me to come in next week to have it all done.

When I arrived, the mechanic goes "NO NOT THIS CAR".... Should have been my sign but again it was used so I assumed he had worked on it before. Over the next few months it was in and out of dealer for weird issues all the time. Well being like most Subaru owners I plastered my car all over the internet and one day I get a PM on a forum. Guy basically said: "Hey man that used to be my car, not sure if you can do anything but I had to Lemon Law it and get dealer to give me money back. Its a POS and you should be worried"

:(


Fast Forward a year later, the engine blew on it. Golfball sized hole in the block, ended up getting all new engine. But in the time I had the car I probably had her in to dealer 100+ times. Ended up selling to a friend who loved the car and bought a 2007 STi. Just always pissed me off the dealer was never up front with me.

Mosca > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:53

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Geez, man. Just change the tranny. That would have to cost less than not fixing it nine times.

TheKug > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:57

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Ha, it made me think: "When life gives you lemons, serve them lemon scented summons."

David E. Davis > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 14:57

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When life gives you lemons, return them and get limes, tonic water and gin.

BoostedBrick2 > drdude 02/09/2015 at 15:05

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Dude, shift it out of 4th on the highway!

drdude > BoostedBrick2 02/09/2015 at 15:08

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typo.. meant 6th.

BoostedBrick2 > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 15:10

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My father works at a dealership that used to get a bunch of lemon law Lexus from CA. Sold the crap out of them and they were all very clearly labeled exactly what they were. He wishes they had more and isn't sure why they aren't getting them anymore.

-CSB?

E39Geek > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 15:11

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The best Latin I could come up with is from a friend (another lawyer):

"Placitum insequtur"

Literally "Litigation will ensue." (Future Passive Voice 3d person).

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

A less literal translation would be "Placitum facit" which is closer in spirit to "shit happens and is a bit easier to pronounce and/or embroider on a seal of some kind.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 15:12

1

This makes me think of something I read years ago when Ford, under Jac "the Knife" Nasser, cut the amount of time allowed for various warranty repair items. And the issue was that it meant that dealers would fix things like a transmission issue in a 'quick and dirty' way rather than doing a proper diagnosis and repairing the root issue... which can be time consuming.

The net result would be a series of temporary fixes until the warranty ran out OR the owner litigated.

It was purely a cost decision that probably didn't take into account the cost of damaging their reputation.

And I'm also wondering if the car you litigated over was ever fixed properly by a transmission specialist who understood how it worked and how to fix it properly... and what that fix was compared to what the dealer was doing.

SteveLehto > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 02/09/2015 at 15:14

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Yes, how do you monetize goodwill?

BoostedBrick2 > drdude 02/09/2015 at 15:15

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I figured. How is the BRZ on the highway with the engine revving that high? Been awhile since I have driven a car with RPMs that high on the highway and I am sure that NVH has come a long way but it used to drive me crazy.

windadvisory > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 15:18

2

The "Service Light" on this 2009 335i M Sport came on twice and BMW bought it back!

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/488425…

While the ad is well written the owner loses every ounce of credibility by dancing around his Lemon Law title like Brian Williams' misremembering his helicopter getting hit by an RPG.

You know what this BMW reminds me of?

Every "Salvage Title" / "Reconstructed" vehicle I have ever seen for sale.

"Insurance company total car tiny small fender bender" "Cousin Vlad make very best professional repair"

Harvey > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 15:21

1

My employer had a Volvo T5 some years back. The engine blew on a Monday, the techies ordered a new block on Tuesday, it was on a plane from Sweden on Wednesday, was fitted on Thursday. The car was back on the road on Friday.

We went on to buy a whole fleet of them, must have had hundreds over the years (still using the things but they're big and bloated compared to that original tyre-shredder). Moral is look after the customer.

I look after in-car computer (aftermarket) stuff in the fleet. Basically a computer, dash-board monitor and a cable linking the two. I've never had to replace more than three components on any fault report....

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 15:23

3

Well here's one way:

http://dilbert.com/strip/2011-10-…

drdude > BoostedBrick2 02/09/2015 at 15:33

1

Not really bad. I notice it because I've mostly owned V8s with 6spds, so I think 1500rpms is appropriate. Like I mentioned above the engine itself is smooth so NVH isnt an issue.... and the tone is mellow enough with the stock exhaust you get used to it... it is a 4cyl after all, so 1500 at 70 isnt going to happen.

Dest > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 15:47

1

Hah! That's a pretty good tale. At least the manufacturer attempted to pass on the lemon law info and it was just the dealer mucking about.

Richard > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 15:51

0

Dumb question I know, but if it was just the transmission why not just have a new factory transmission installed? Since dealers only know how to install new transmissions ($2,000 minimum) to solve minor ($300) problems this would have been a no brainer for them. Or am I missing something?

SteveLehto > Richard 02/09/2015 at 15:53

1

No, you are not missing anything. The factory would not authorize the "expensive" replacement and kept authorizing the small fixes in hopes that it would work.

bob and john > rude80y 02/09/2015 at 15:54

3

RazorGP > CB 02/09/2015 at 15:59

0

When life gives you lemons, sue the sour out of it.

How does that sound?

Also_Ran > rude80y 02/09/2015 at 16:12

1

Only if he's got a buddy in copyright law.

JBRonin > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 16:14

1

When life gives you lemons, make litigation-aid

Joneez > The Gray Adder 02/09/2015 at 16:19

0

I'm gonna guess it was more likely the 2.3 HSC which was a pushrod engine not OHC. They had a bad habit of eating their crap aluminum cylinder head.

Disclaimer: I'm one of the few weirdos that actually liked my Pintos.(Yes, plural!)

EMF! > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 16:24

0

9 attempts? at what point do you just change the transmission?

Rusty Shackleford > SteveLehto 02/09/2015 at 16:24

1

Steve, keep writing these articles. There are people who need to see this to realize that there is an way effective to deal with lemons. Besides, every lemon has its own tale to tell and they are all interesting.

SteveLehto > EMF! 02/09/2015 at 16:25

1

Most would have said at the "Last Chance" opportunity. At #5 (but the first for the MFR).

SteveLehto > Rusty Shackleford 02/09/2015 at 16:26

1

thanks for the note.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > Ad_absurdum_per_aspera 02/09/2015 at 16:54

1

"(I 'm assuming, of course, that they did something significant in all of those instances instead of changing the fluid and filter and slapping it back together. ."

That might be a crazy assumption, depending upon the dealer. After all, how many people would just give up in frustration and either sell the car or trade it in and let someone else have the headaches? Service says that it was fixed, new oil and hit it a couple of times with a hammer. Out the door for under a hundred...

ReverendLoki > E39Geek 02/09/2015 at 16:58

1

According to Google Translate, "Litis Sequitor"

slapya > dmat 02/09/2015 at 17:02

0

I had the 5 year alignment warranty with a company owned by Tire Kingdom. When I would take my car in, they would claim all sorts of problems with the suspension. Instead of letting them do it, I took it to my usual mechanic who test drove it and said nothing was wrong.

dmat > slapya 02/09/2015 at 17:11

0

The first time I got the alignment, they told me to replace 2 rod ends and that was it. My mechanic agreed with them too as they were very worn. after that, it was every 6000 miles or 6 months that I'd find myself there. Also since a few of the workers know me, they just go ahead and do it. I havent been to them in a while since buying my new truck. I'm not sure if my alignment is covered under warranty but the tire kingdom one is transferable if I need it.